Nitina Dua Chopra: Thank you. And the pleasure is truly mine too. I'm really excited and looking forward to the questions that are gonna come to me today.

Nitina Dua Chopra: Honestly, my approach is rooted in my own experience. You know, way back in our times, we didn't really have structured guidance while we were growing up, and I remember how overwhelming it felt. 

That is what drives me, to be the person I once needed myself. I think, for a lot of us, careers have happened by chance, not by choice. And today as we navigate and we help our students navigate their choices, it's important that you give them a journey from exploration to elimination. If it is structured, they truly do find their path. 

Three things — if I have to point out what has shaped me or how I work —  first, I always keep the student at the center. No matter when a student steps into high school, there are a lot of people who are an equal stakeholder in a student's life journey. I truly try to figure out what is their story, what are their values, and what is the pace that they're moving in with. 

You know, while the world is moving at a very fast pace, well, let me tell you, each student moves at a very different pace. So to recognize that, hold onto it, and kind of have an individualized career plan for them, makes it a little more easier. The second thing, what I truly look at, is I focus on purpose. 

Now, you might be wondering, that's a very big word for a high school student, but students do surprise you. It's not just a career path, it's more purpose. It's important that students know why they want to get into doing something. I think with so much that's around today for students, they're spoiled with choices.

So the why is very, very important to ask. And third, I lead with empathy. But I also challenge them. It's not that, you know, “It's okay, fine, I want to just completely, totally understand you”. I think true growth comes in when you're gently pushed out of your comfort zone. And if we look back at our times, I think we were also somebody who was nudged to be pushed out of a comfort zone, in fact thrown at doing things. 

I think college counseling has a lot of role of mentorship embedded in it. And mentorship to me isn't about giving answers. It's about creating a space for students to explore, reflect, and own their choices. That's really, really important. Shifting the accountability compass in the student gives me immense joy.

Nitina Dua Chopra: What keeps me going in those moments is the student. 

When the external landscape feels really chaotic, which it truly is today, especially when we just look at students who are 15 to 18 years of age, that age has a lot of hormonal changes, that age has a lot of, you know, “How am I being perceived” kind of ideas. And changing visa rules, unpredictable admission cycles, students on growing anxiety, I remind myself that I have to be their anchor. If I'll falter, they'll falter. This is something I just don't say from a college counseling perspective, this I also say, you know, being a parent. This, I also say to everybody who's in the education community, to understand that it takes a village to raise the child. 

So just keep the student in the center when moments and when the landscape is chaotic — the VUCA world as we say it. And I keep dividing, redefining the VUCA world into a very different space. I think at this moment, what's really critical for us to bring in is resilience. And for me, that point of resilience comes from a sense of responsibility, but also from a sense of belief. 

Belief that guidance is most valuable when things are uncertain. It's easy to advise students when the path is clear. It's much harder and far more meaningful to walk beside someone when the road disappears. 

So while there is a student who's been dreaming to get into a particular university, and when you really dream about it, you are working for it, since your grade 10, you've been working for it, you've been spending some three, four years thinking that that's the dream college that I wanna get into. 

And suddenly you realize that the bubble is busted, and that it's your end year of school. And now when things are really changing, where you are at that particular point in time. We have a huge team for career counseling, college counseling at Shiv Nadar School, and we've built a culture where we share that pressure.

You know, sometimes, you know, when you get and work with students, you also kind of emotionally get connected with them. So it's also the point when you start sharing that pressure with your team, seek their support and celebrate the smallest wins that we have as a team. Whether it's a student finally getting clarity or just feeling a scene. 

You know, your class of the class, as I keep saying, always is very clear where they wanna get to. It's your mass of the class and sometimes the mass of the class, some of the students in there are not even visible to many. So just the fact that we are able to see them, we are able to hear them, we are able to listen them, those are the moments that refill my energy. 

Uncertainty, honestly, has never scared any one of us at Shiv Nadar School. In fact, I think as an institution we've learned that it often leads to growth for the student and for us as mentors as well.

Nitina Dua Chopra: When the whole world, and in fact, let me tell you, it's, today, it's always, you know, no matter how much myth we wanna bust around, rankings, etc, but students and parents do get driven by it. You could feel celebrated in a smaller place or get lost in a bigger place. 

So you have to define, really, your true fit element of where do you see your strength, you know? So we have a matrix there, where we say that there are many components to, and I keep sharing that in many forums, at many panel discussions that I go to; there are a number of quotients that define you for where do you really see yourself fitting in. 

So it's also not just the intelligence quotient. It's your emotional quotient. It's your cultural quotient, your social quotient, and these days, the even more relevant — technical quotient. There are many factors that lead you into saying that, why rankings are critical, why rankings are important?

Colleges and universities are looking at new age courses. Students and parents are looking at many other things. When we read the World Economic Forum Skill Report of 2025, the skills that they actually look at, are what the students would be needing today. When a student today’s in grade nine or 10 or 11 will join the workforce in 2030-35. 

If we look at it, it's more the skills that we need to look at that are really relevant. So the whole idea about giving them a purview of what universities truly are, what's the experience of it? We also try to break a lot of barriers by having connections with our alumni. For them coming back, talking to our existing students, telling them how they

feel celebrated in universities that they've gone to and they've resonated and, you know, kind of made an impact. 

So it's, the whole approach is, again, twofold. It's the experience and the impact. While those are two very important factors, the other is also the capability and the “copability”. While rankings might sound very fancy, but the fact is, do I have the ability to cope up with that environment of where I'm trying to really get into? 

So, A, it's the course choice. B, it's the choice of the environment. C, am I being totally agile and adaptable to where I wanna get to, and am I understanding the whole purpose of how I'm gonna fit truly into that space and make an impact? When I move out and become an alumna of that particular institution, am I also thinking about giving back? So a lot of things around those aspects make it a whole relevant conversation to say that, how do I eliminate, or how do I strengthen the college list that I'm further looking at?

Nitina Dua Chopra: At Shiv Nadar School particularly, career counseling, we take it more as a science. It's not something that you get into year 12 to say, “Okay, fine, I need to visit my college counselor because I'm looking for a university course or a college to get into”. 

We work with the student right from grade nine to keep them updated with what's happening and what's happening in the change in the landscape of higher education. And for that, for us, it even gets more relevant to read that for us as well before we share or send that. Right? So we have a very, very clear approach to it. 

It's information and interpretation, right? One is that today you'll agree with me that you have these various platforms that give you information, right? And it's very easy, and students are naive. It's very easy for students and parents to believe what information has been given in. Is that information being interpreted in the right way? 

So what we do at Shiv Nadar School is that we are in touch with officials, you know, from the USIEF. We also read up a lot on what's posted on the US Embassy, embassy portals. We are also in touch with people in the landscape of higher education, especially the university folks, and let me tell you, they really collaborate very well. 

So the whole idea is also co-creating this space, which is very non-judgmental and non-threatening. We do a lot of one-on-one counseling with our students. So

suppose there's something that we can see much coming right now, with the geopolitical situation around the world, what we try to do is we say, “Well, you have a plan A that's there, but a plan B and a plan C is equally important. And your choice of your plan B and plan C should be from a point that in case you have to go to those universities, you're as happy to get in and go, as much as you were happy to go in for plan A”. 

So we do a lot of workshop style sessions with our parents and students to keep them abreast. You know, also the fact that sometimes, as I said, there are different kinds of learners, there are different kinds of, you know, your diverse set of parent communities. So we also keep sharing with them a lot of newsletters, a lot of alerts, right, in terms of messaging via emails, etc. 

So we just try to give the information, interpret it in the right way, and ensure that children are also, it's breaking it down for them in an easier way for them to comprehend it in a more positive tone, which leads to less anxiety, a more receptive space for them to believe in that the world largely is a very nice place, and the whole world is waiting for them to make that difference.

Nitina Dua Chopra: In our times, I don't think we really understood inclusion, but when I interact with parents and students today, I feel that, you know, a lot of parents also should understand the true meaning of what inclusivity means. 

Inclusivity actually begins with acceptance. The whole fact at the Career Guidance Center at Shiv Nadar School, we believe that inclusion, of course, you have to be compliant, but it goes beyond compliance sometimes. Our role is just not to help students find universities that accommodate their needs, but ones that truly understand them. The one that truly affirms and empowers them to thrive. 

Our approach is very clear. We have a team at school, which also works very closely with making that environment inclusive. So we have individualized education plans. We do something called ‘Coffee Mornings’ with our parents so that they don't feel that they're any less, as an opportunity than regular students on campus. 

We try to do a session on something called ‘Busting the Myths’ with them. While the whole world is available to children, there's also a set of areas and avenues and a lot of choices that's available to these sets of students as well. What we try to do with them is, we try to shortlist universities with a sense of purpose — making them understand that, you know, while the academic fit is relevant, but there's a whole lot of fit about, you know, understanding what kind of culture will be there in that particular university, which will accommodate those kind of students on their campus. We also try to align and sit down with the parents and students of such, you know, who are applying to universities. 

We try to do like a pre-application engagement with them. If they wanna apply to Indian universities, global universities, how are there different paths of inclusivity that are available and they can use and look at those. There are certain certificates that can be done. So we are also very, very clear that we really want to help our students with that. 

And trust me, over the years, our students have really gone to some phenomenal places. They're making a whole impact there. They've done projects which the universities are raving about, and also we also bring those students back on our campus to talk to other students. So that's very, very important. 

I think it's a whole circle that we try to close when we are working with these students, and it's a joyful experience.

Nitina Dua Chopra: Financial planning to me, is not the last mile conversation at all. It's a conversation that needs to begin very early. 

In fact, one of our first few meetings when we start decoding the entire college counseling process, and the whole design of how we want to integrate things backward, the whole fact that how exit plans need to be designed for students, financial conversation becomes an integral part at the career guidance center office. 

Education, especially abroad, has become a layered challenge. It's layered in many ways, right? And it needs a certain kind of a strategy. Students today are aspiring because the world's become fluid. A lot of things are, you know, there in the media. So everything seems very aspirational, approachable. But when you really get down to see and decode it for a grade nine or a grade 10 student, you have to really break it down for them to say that, well, exploration and ninth and 10th is really great, but then the journey and the onset of elimination needs to start mid Grade 10 and by the end of year 11 that elimination is done and you're really strategizing and being very crisp with what you're looking at. 

So what really works with all of us is mapping a certain set of students who are very keen for scholarships and tap them early. And when we do that, we try to look at some niche scholarships that are available there, and then align students' activities and engagements along with that.

So again, there's a whole strategy, strategy around how do you wanna really plan that, and that minute and granular planning needs to start from Grade 10. So we look at it from that perspective. I also have to bust a myth here with you that scholarship is not only meant for toppers, right? They're often also, if you align scholarships and students that identified their true purpose, then alignment, marrying purpose can lead them into some great scholarships. 

Also identifying, is it the first generation learner? On, you know who's looking at, because you know you have your first generation learners on campus. There are enough things that are there available for them. There are children who've done some amazing capstone projects while in school and making an impact in the community by large. There are this whole set of things that are available for students there as well. 

And also when you're looking at scholarships, and of course that's one aspect. Then there's, funding education largely is also sometimes about not just scholarships, but also about, okay, I will, I'm really aspiring to go study abroad. I will want to take a certain kind of loan and I'll repay that. But again, it sounds very easy when you're in your own comfortable space in your own country to say, I'll pay that loan. But when you get there, when you have to manage your studies along with thinking that, oh my God, I have a financial burden to look at as well, it gets difficult. 

So please help decode. So we do speak and have conversations with our students around that. There's a whole flexibility around loan payment, etc also. So we do speak to students and especially first orient parents around it and then we, you know, if need be, then we speak to the student as well as, or on that. 

Also, when we look at, you know, mapping our students for all of this, what happens with students is they're just looking at, oh, I've got my college admission, when I arrive, everything is sorted, and I always tell them when you're looking at scholarships, when you're looking at loans, when you're looking at how you know, when you're thinking, especially thinking about studying abroad, how a dollar rate can fluctuate, etc, you also have to look that it's an year after year kind of an understanding. 

So it's just not admission to arrival. It's also about the fact that you, for the four years that you're looking at studying, you're understanding what scholarship will mean to you every single year. What loan payment will mean to you every single year. So all of this is critical to us at Shiv Nadar School. 

And also we create awareness around it to a certain sense of design thinking to a certain sense of growth mindset so that the common language is interpreted by the students and the parents who also are educators on campus in an easier way.

Nitina Dua Chopra: Very important factor. For us at Shiv Nadar School and especially the career guidance center, when you're catering to a certain set of students who are used to a lot of a Blinkit, a Zomato, everything, like an instant gratification kind of a generation, it's a ‘maggie noodle generation’, right? Everything just kind of, once it's done with, and you know your, everything is just at a click of a button, etc, when you get into another space, especially another country where the whole environment is very different, I often ask this question to parents, and I'm working on something called the college ready Curriculum at school, where in the month of October, November, we have like a session with the parents and students on how college ready my child is here.

If a child, you know, while they're at home, they're in their own comfort zone, it sometimes gets very difficult for them to manage their own emotions. Leave aside when they're going into another country where they have to manage their own academics, their own personal wellbeing, their own finances, their own looking after their own food, etc. It gets really difficult.

You know, there's something called muscle memory and I often talk about it with my parents and students. Managing and first understanding and acknowledging that I feel a certain way is very important. And what do I do once I acknowledge it? And after that, what am I doing to emerge as a better version of myself?

What's work in progress and in practice? For parents let me tell you, mental health should not be considered as an afterthought. When the child's gone to a particular college, you've ticked the checkbox to say, this is what the five colleges that you are looking at, and wow, my child made it to all the five colleges.

Then you've lost the plot totally. The fact that it's a key pillow. A student may find the perfect academic program, but if the emotional scaffolding around them is weak when they're actually out, then it can really get overwhelming. While I said that, we have our department at Shiv Nadar school, which looks after the whole inclusivity aspect, we work very, very well closely with our emotional, social, and behavioral counseling team. We have a team on campus that works with students, not just, you know, while they're headed to college, right? From, you know, they step into school, etc.

And high school gets even more critical as I'm going to reiterate the fact that nine to 12, hormones are jumping and pumping, things are happening. So a lot of the support, we do a lot of coffee morning meets. With our parents and students we have counseling campus services, where our experts share with them. Our students have a very non-judgmental space and they come and seek a lot of guidance. We also have our students. I seek and extract a lot from my alumni.

There are students who've been struggling with their emotions in school, but have settled beautifully well in colleges and universities. Those students come back and we have them connect with these students. So they do kind of find that clear thing that, you know, if he could do it or she could do it, I'll also be able to do it.

And also when we are looking at mapping colleges for our students, we are also looking at the fact that while they're choosing a particular college, does that college have some kind of mentorship assistance, some kind of a space where those students will find their own voice, which can be their non-judgmental space there at that particular campus.

These days, especially post COVID, the mental health wellbeing aspect has become the most integral part, a World Economic Forum is also really talking about it. There are, there's this whole wellness infrastructure in universities and university campuses, so we ensure that students are aware about that. And also the fact that, I always tell my students that, find your coping mechanism.

Right. Figure out a hobby that you pursue, something that you know in terms of ,if you are feeling that you want to react to a particular thing, or you're getting really overburdened and overwhelmed about something, is there a hobby or something that you would wish to pursue? So it's not, again, the last mile conversation, it's a conversation that we keep having with them. We tell them to embrace emotions, understand emotions, accept that there might be some gap, and acknowledge the fact that there is some work that needs to be done. And also as a college counselor, we also let them see our vulnerabilities. We're not perfect humans ourselves.

So they feel very comfortable with the fact that, okay, you know, neither my college counselor is perfect, nor am I perfect. So it isn't the perfect world, but we all have to find our own pieces to fit into this world in our own ways. So I think we are trying the little bit that we can in our own capacity.

Nitina Dua Chopra: This question is like a question that comes almost every second day. You know about the fact that we know that students these days get a certain score and they're bright or academically bright students are capable. But if you have to, if I have to really decode this answer from the lens of a college counselor, I'll decode this. 

Keep a site capability. I think it's about clarity. We try to get a shift from the ranking space mindset to values and outcomes driven decision making framework. So as you talked about, you know, you know, mobility, you talked about, you know, what is it going to be, when I'm gonna finish my degree, what am I going to really think about getting into? Right? Things like that. So the whole shift in mindset starts to happen. 

Every student is different. There are some students who are more driven in research, right? STEM based research programs. There are students who are really wanting to look at the whole idea about social work. There's a whole lot of sort of students who are thinking about art and design. 

Then there are whole students who believe the fact that finance is the next big thing. So what we try to do is we try to tell them to create their own personalized decision matrices, you know, to see that, what is it that I'm trying to fit myself into? Factors like — Will I get enough research opportunities in a particular campus? Will I get interdisciplinary avenues to explore? Like today, I might see that I want, I might want to do a particular thing, and it might shift. It might change another year down the line. Will I have the choice to explore that too? Also, the class size. As I said, every learner is different, so when you have to do it, you have to, for every child, the matrix that they're gonna design, it's gonna be very different. 

As I say, career counseling is a science. It's not just taking the checkbox in each space. So for academically bright student, you have to really sit down to understand what's their driving force. Is it, there are students who are, you know, motivated themselves, there are students who will get the whole ability to get their grades because they've learned the art to translate that. 

But truly what are they really looking at is something that we really work very closely with. How many of our universities are able to give them research based on academic alignment? To what they're truly looking at and what are they learning. So I think that's really important. Another aspect that I keep telling them that the world tomorrow is about transferable skills while we are living in a world which is really ever changing. 

But the fact, the whole ability to network themselves, their whole ability to say that, do I have the ability to kind of go ahead, network with people, join different clubs, different societies, create or co-create my own space there, enrich myself with the experience that I'm wanting to get into. Also, the fact that, you know, how am I also making an impact in the particular space that I'm going to. 

Goodwill, ambassadors of school going, another institution has a in itself. Taking that legacy ahead to say that I've learned the art to make an impact. So I think when I look at all of that, it's a jigsaw puzzle where when you connect those dots and they fit in, you'll find yourself employable. You will find yourself agile and adaptable to say that — Okay. Let a challenge come on to me and I'm prepared. I've prepared myself financially. I've prepared myself emotionally. I know that the world out there, I'll be able to network. I'll be able to create an impact. I'll be able to make a difference to the world in my own little capacity and space.

Nitina Dua Chopra: Brilliant question. Because today when we deal with students, and I've been doing this for a decade and more now, especially college counseling, I've learned that for a college counselor, one skill that a college counselor should have is observation. 

You will have a perfect child who walks into your office to tell you, this is perfect. You know, my grades are here, and you know everything. I am ticking the checkbox, everything is really done. You have to co-create different kinds of settings for these students. You have to give them different kinds of opportunities, especially year nine and ten. 

Suppose there's a student who's really brilliant in art and design. There's a student who's really brilliant in sports. Normally sports students land up doing really well academically also, but students who are brilliant in art and design. Are they creative, and creativity wise, they're really there. But if you try to put them in a certain structure, they'll be like, you know, well, I don't really understand that. I can't figure this out. 

So as a college counselor, you have to give them opportunities, give them a lot of project work, give them a lot of leadership positions, help them feel celebrated for what they show their strengths in. And let me tell you, school is a space where you have enough opportunities for students to shine in those spaces. 

The fact that you can also tie up with universities and these days while you integrate things backwards, you realize that there are a lot of opportunities for summer schools, a lot of challenges, open challenges, etc, and such students if given that opportunity will do very well. But if I have to just look at stepping back to say, how do we recognize these set of students is, you know, we work with different curriculums in school, right?

And different curricula —you know, your IGCS, your IB and your national curriculum — have different kinds of opportunities at different times in the year. It has different projects that happen in the different times of the year are different. We also have something called the outbound learning excursions that we have for our students. 

So with these things we try to also recognize the student's strengths. That's one way we do it. The second is we have a curriculum which we follow at Shiv Nadar school through which when we are going inside classrooms, we engage with students, we are able to identify or Scholastic what are their achievements and co-scholastic, what are their achievements. 

The third important way to recognize, is that we're regularly in touch with their educators. For us to understand the finer nuances about which academic subject, which non-academic subject, what kind of responses are coming in, what way for us to embed that while we are making a journey of a student and mapping it from year nine onwards for our students at school. 

So while we integrate those. When you integrate these, you fine tune them and when they're making the choices, that's the first step in year 10, about the choices of subjects that they make in year 11 and 12, when you put this in the jigsaw puzzle, you're able to eliminate a lot of things and the similar thing when they come into year 11 end and where the shortlisting colleges and narrow down the subjects, you're able to figure out the course mapping very, very well. 

So it's not very difficult. It's just about seeing that one child's organic evolution from nine to 12, observing them, engaging with their educators, ensuring that you're having conversation with parents, giving them opportunities, identifying their strengths, accepting their weaknesses. The world is their oyster.

Nitina Dua Chopra: Whenever I speak to my parents and students, and if they listen to this podcast, they'll be like, okay, we'll be hearing Ma'am again. But I always tell them that wherever you are going, you're not going there to blend in, you're going there to belong. So the whole idea that I will make an impact and you make a difference, right? 

But, when a student is not clear and you step back, this is what I tell them when they're ready for college. It starts with the fact that how comfortable are they in their own skin? That's the first idea. The minute we understand the child is comfortable in their own skin is when the journey of exploration begins.

So for a child, exploring is very important. Getting out of your comfort zone is very important. I would also say that having a certain set of discipline is very important. Ninth and 10th, if I have to term it down, and it's about choices and habits. So if a parent can boil down the ninth and 10th into just two terms of choices and habits, 11th and 12th will be beautiful. 

And choices can be further broken down to the fact that you don't have to do the tick check box of saying that, okay, let me do community service, let me do sports, let me do theater, let me do art, let me do language, let me do numeracy. The fact that exploration is important, but understand your own child's strength, and then start on the exploration journey. 

So ninth and 10th is about exploration choices and habits. 11th is about elimination. What I don't want to do. And the minute you step onto the fact of what you don't wanna do, you're getting closer to the fact of what I wish to do, and I think I should be going ahead and doing. Shifting that accountability compass on the student, while as a parent in an educator, you are next to the driving seat, but the child is driving. But you still know that, where to put that brake, where to accelerate more. So that is important, but the whole thing about the fact that accountability shifts of the students has to come in two year — 11th and 12th. 

The only suggestion to parents and students and educators is the fact that dining table conversations at home need to change when your child steps into ninth. From nine to 12th, it has to be somewhere around things that a child's interested in the habit of reading, some simple things about reading the newspaper, the ability to network with people. 

The fact that when is it that my opinion is not required? The whole ability to keep quiet. The ability to also, the fact that I have the ability to listen to somebody fully before I've given an opinion to, you know, say something. I think those are those finer things that are really important, which will make a student college ready. 

If I have to really end this podcast, I'll end it with this, with redefining VUCA, which I do every time. You know, we always say it's volatile, uncertain, ambiguous, and complex. I will say that give your child V - Vision, celebrate your child’s uniqueness, make your child capable from C and also ensure that you are also defining your child’s culpability skills and A is adaptability and agility. 

 I'm telling you, it's a joyful journey. It's beautiful to engage with students and there's nothing more gratifying than that to see them reach meaningful places and meaningful points.