Cracking the Ivy Code, with Rahul Subramaniam

Rahul Subramaniam: 

Thank you so much, Soundarya.  

Rahul Subramaniam:

Well, it didn't start that way. It started with the Poshak and me wondering, what are we gonna do with our lives after college, and we blew all our savings and we travelled to a bunch of countries.

We went to Brazil, Turkey, China, India — so this was in 2013. My parents had immigrated from India to the US, and I had come a couple of times over the summers, but I never really experienced India.

When I came in 2013, there was so much energy here, and I think Poshak felt that too. I went back to my parents in California, and I said, I'm moving to India. They were not at all happy. They were like, “We gave up everything. We came to the US. We live in Silicon Valley. Every Indian in the world wants to move here. You are crazy. Please get an MBA, like a good Indian bacha.”

At that time, we weren't certain what we were gonna do, but we knew that we want to do something entrepreneurial in India. While we figured that out, we were like, “Okay, what can we do that requires zero upfront capital costs? Oh, we can mentor kids by going to people's homes. Or meeting in cafes.”

Then someone sat us down with one of our mentors and said, “Hey, nobody's doing this in a process-driven, personalised manner. Why are you looking for random entrepreneurial ventures? You've got something here. This is something people are paying you for. Why don't you put some structure around it?”

So never thought it would get as big as it is now, but just year on year, I think more people came in. The inception isn't as romantic as, “Oh my God, we had a vision for where this would go in 10 years.” I think we stumbled upon it, but every couple of years, our ambitions would skyrocket.

Rahul Subramaniam:

I think in this day and age, the example I love to give is Miss Dolly Jain — and every Athena mom knows who Miss Dolly Jain is — she is a world-renowned Sari draper.

Now imagine the conversations Miss Dolly Jain had with her parents, like, “Mommy, I want to be a Sari draper.” I don't think that went well, right? But she is a celebrity now.

So, what that demonstrates is, you can take virtually any activity, and if you do it sincerely and keep striving to level up, you pursue excellence, even perfection.

Now, you can't do something in a sloppy way. You can't just go through the motions. But if you truly pursue excellence and perfection in Sari draping, in computer science, in economics, in history, philosophy, literature — it can be anything — you will have a great life. And I think that's increasingly what we want for every Athena student. We want them to have amazing lives, and college is a springboard to that.

But if you look at elite universities, they want students who have a vision for themselves and the world. The vision can't be, “I want to get into Stanford.” The vision must be, “I want to reimagine wearable technology. I want to build wearable technology that is aesthetic, but also helps people monitor their health.”

To become the best version of yourself, you need to have a vision for what your ideal life looks like. One question I love to ask young people is — they're normally 15, 16 when they come here, sometimes younger — and I ask them: Imagine your ideal life at the age of 30, and describe that to me in minute detail. Where are you living? What are you doing? Who are you doing that with?

They've never been asked that question before, but that really opens up their minds and gives us direction. So if they want to be a tech entrepreneur living in Silicon Valley, now we know the path to get there. They want to be a fashion designer living in Milan, now we know the path to get there.

One thing I love to do personally is think about, let's say, a kid wants to be a filmmaker. I research what the best filmmakers throughout history — I'm talking Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Tarantino — what they were doing when they were 15.

And I think that is remarkably insightful, and I think that's how we need to mentor kids.

Rahul Subramaniam:

Got it.

So I think we, of course, use psychometrics, and that really helps, but you can't rely entirely on psychometrics. And by the way, whenever we do psychometrics, we tell families that psychometrics are like blood tests. It's a snapshot of where you are at this moment, but that doesn't mean that you can't improve along each of these parameters. That's a side point, but we use psychometrics, we use assignments, we use conversations.

We ask questions like, “What does your ideal life look like?” I love to ask parents, “When is your child happiest? When do they come to life? When are they most excited?” I think these questions reveal so much. So we do a deep dive. We psychoanalyse families from multiple angles. That's how we craft a brand.

The concept of a student's brand is related to the concept of Ikigai, which is a Japanese concept that roughly translates to “Reason for Being”. So your Ikigai is the intersection of four circles: “What are you good at?”, “What do you love?”, “What makes money?”, and “What does the world need?”

So, kids often think about what they're good at, and parents often think about what makes money and what the world needs. And Ikigai is such a powerful concept and a useful concept because it synthesises what students are looking for and what parents are looking for.

And it gets them on the same table so they can figure out what the best path should be.

For example, if a kid is really good at art, but the parents are like, “You need to study computer science because it's gonna be lucrative,” with Ikigai, the synthesis of those two extremes would be something like UI/UX or animation or the Metaverse, or design. That's something technical and future-proof to some extent. It'll be really lucrative. At the same time, it's artistic.

So if a student has that interest, they can fulfil their creative proclivities as well, because we don't negate any one (of them).

I think it's very easy for some mentors to be like, “Yo parents, you're outdated. What you say doesn't make sense.” I think that's ridiculous. At the same time, dismissing the student is incorrect. All parties really care about a student's success, so how do we bring everyone to the table and get that alignment?

Rahul Subramaniam: 

So there might be others, right? Animation is one way to synthesise art and science. 

Architecture might work. Product design might work. Pure Tech might work. I mean, Apple really pioneered this, that technology should be beautifully designed. 

We believe that every student has an Ikigai, and we need to excavate that. So sometimes the obvious choice won't be it. It won't be animation, it might be architecture, it might be product (design). 

And sometimes, what we as Athena mentors need to do is expose students to these fields. They may not know what product design is. Okay, we tell them, “Why don't you take this mini course, of 4, 6, 8 hours; let me show you what a day in the life of a product designer is.” So sometimes those conversations, that exposure needs to happen.

Rahul Subramaniam: 

Once we identify the Ikigai, we think about what is a really interesting project in this space, and that's what we call the Capstone project. It's probably the most impressive project. 

So if a student wanted to do product design, we'd be like, “Okay, what's something that annoys you? Identify pain points or issues in your own community with yourself, with your family, with your friends, and how can you design some kind of product that's both functional and aesthetic?” 

And with our students, we'd be like, “Let's actually manufacture a bunch of units. Is there a way we can mass produce 10, 20, 50, or hundred units? Can we sell it D2C? So you learn some business skills as well.”

The student thinks, Now I'm a product designer. I've made something, and I've learned the basics of D2C /Direct-to-Consumer e-commerce as well. Now I'm starting to sound interesting to an Ivy League or other elite university.  

Rahul Subramaniam: 

That's a great question, and I'll be a hundred per cent honest here. I have seen a high concentration of very capable and aspirational young people at these universities. 

Networks are powerful, and your network can be your high school, it can be your college, it can be your first job, right? If you go on LinkedIn, people say ex-Google or ex-McKinsey all the time, right? So I think that's what a university provides: a network and inspiration. 

I log on to various social media channels, and I see my buddy from down the hall in college, who is running for US Congress, or who is a Chief Executive at a Fortune 500 company. And what that does is it inspires me. It's like, “Oh my God, I need to reach to the next level as well.”

So there's the knowledge you gain, but that's increasingly becoming democratised. I can go to MIT's Open Courseware or some other platform, or Coursera and learn all the information, but I think what is difficult to replicate are those network effects of a high concentration of capable, aspirational young people who stay in touch for life and inspire, motivate, and even drive each other to greater heights. 

So I think that would be the biggest takeaway.  

Rahul Subramaniam: 

We have a number of neurodivergent students who have done extremely well. By extremely well, I mean the most elite university. 

So I think there is an acknowledgement that, well, maybe stepping back a hundred years ago, these universities were only white men, right? And then they gradually admitted people of colour, and then women, and then people of different socioeconomic backgrounds. And now, I  think neurodivergence is kind of the next hurdle. 

So I think there's always an acknowledgement of how we become more inclusive while maintaining high academic and excellence standards. So I think that's something to be proud of.

Rahul Subramaniam: 

So, what is a brand? A brand is a differentiator. I will encourage everyone listening here to think in terms of anti-stereotyping.  What can I do that most people in my context are not doing? For example, maybe a lot of kids are doing robotics. Okay, I'm not saying you shouldn't do robotics, but in addition to doing robotics, can you work on a construction site to learn engineering, to learn business? 

A lot of kids are doing case competitions. Okay, great. I. Can you work as a waiter or waitress at a restaurant? I'm telling you, you'll learn more business working as a waiter or waitress than you will at any case competition. And you hear about so many famous business people who started out when they were teenagers, selling newspapers door-to-door. I think that's such a transformative activity. 

So I think we need to go back to basics and really engage with the world. I think a lot of kids are spending a lot of time behind screens. I understand that the nature of education and communication is evolving, but at the same time, there's no substitute for getting out there and interacting with people and making things happen. 

Rahul Subramaniam: 

Yeah, they're looking for character. That can be leadership. 

One quality I strive to cultivate in myself is anti-fragility. It's a beautiful term coined by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. Anti-fragility means, after a shock, you come back stronger. You're not just robust, but you're anti-fragile. 

You know, I think that would be big. Empathetic leadership, anti-fragility,  resilience, and cultural rootedness. That's something we talk about. 

Universities want as much diversity as possible. So you show that you're really rooted in not just Indian culture. We had a student who built an app called Canada Disco, right? And he used that to really strengthen his ties to Bangalore after moving back to India from the US. 

So, appreciation for your culture while also being able to respectfully critique your culture is a plus.

So these are some of the quote-unquote, softer human skills that really make a difference.

Rahul Subramaniam:

We've been inspired by other organisations that have maintained quality while scaling very sustainably and responsibly. And sometimes that means halting growth.

I think we need to be rigorous about quality standards. I'm always looking to bring on board great mentors who've been doing this or who have diverse life experiences, and who increasingly see this as a career. So that's what we need to do. We need to find amazing talent.

We need to have really amazing systems internally that encourage collaboration. Because when students come to Athena, mentors are always in contact and conversation with other mentors. They're getting the benefit of so many minds on their case. So we need to keep sticking to these first principles, as we gradually grow.

Rahul Subramanian:

I think we do what we can. We, in the past, have done a certain number of students pro bono. We're doing even more now, and we'll do even more in the future.

Universities are attempting to become more inclusive. And of course they, they want the toppers from Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, and other big cities. At the same time, they want students with very interesting life experiences, who may be refugees, or have overcome other challenges that more traditional students have not.

If anyone wants to reach out to me personally, I would love to hear your story. We're in a privileged position to have these abilities. We really want to offer these opportunities to an increasing number of students.

Rahul Subramaniam: 

When did Roger Federer start playing tennis? I think when he was five, like from the age of five to 40, he did nothing else. 

So I'm not saying we should start college counselling at five — but I do think we should start mentorship at five. I think. How do we expose kids to different activities, take their feedback, observe where their strengths lie, and very patiently encourage them? So I think that process can start early. 

Thinking more strategically about college, I think that starts typically in ninth grade for some students, even eighth or seventh.  

Rahul Subramaniam: 

I think it's gonna become even more important. We're speaking with a lot of AI specialists. 

And what is AI really good at? It's good at prescribed tasks, you know. I know it's evolving year on year, but I feel like if you have the capacity to make connections between diverse academic disciplines, ranging from STEM to the social sciences, to the humanities, to the arts, and if you have wisdom, if you have judgment, if you have taste, if you have insight, that's something that will always be required. 

I would say, study the liberal arts at the same time, know how to use technology and then you should be, you should be good in the future. 

Rahul Subramaniam:

The US has been built on immigrants, to a large extent from India as well. Indian Americans have made it into the upper echelons of so many industries and contributed so much to the fabric of American society. I think everyone recognises that.

So I think in the long term, this is gonna be a far more globalised world. A lot of people are studying in the US, coming back to India and working at American companies, working at startups or starting their own companies, or working for the government.

The Indian government has various programs in which they send people to the US to see what's out there, and then come back and bring those insights and best practices to benefit India. So I think that will continue and that should continue. So we're not too worried about that.

Rahul Subramaniam:

I mean, look at other data. I would say, like, where are alumni going on to? Maybe some amazing graduate programs, they're getting Rhodes Scholarships and other recognitions? The culture of the university and so on. So, rankings are one variable, but definitely not all of it.

One thing we do with all of our families is, we have them fill out a 15-page questionnaire on what's important to them — the culture of the university, proximity to a big city, is it in a big city, is it more rural, which country, and the strength of the program. And then based on all of that, we construct a college list that's appropriate for each student and their parents.

Rahul Subramaniam: 

I see most things not changing. I think whatever happens in the world, there will be a need for personal mentorship. 

There will be a need to guide young people to discover who they are, what they want, their talents, passions, aspirations. It'll be more similar than different. We want to go deeper. 

I think we're gonna do more of the life coaching, the transformative life coaching, in addition to the college counselling. 

I think that's the vision for Athena.